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Shishio

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Number of posts : 43
Registration date : 2007-03-01

PostSubject: @Carnsir   Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:19 pm

This is a response to your spec questions for rogues.

Carnsir wrote:
What are the current Rogue's specs. and what kind of weapons do you intend on using during the endgame content? Example: Swords/Daggers/Maces...Etc

Well carn, that depends. I can list a few very efficient specs, smoe require more skill than others.

For PVP Daggers, 30/0/31 is a great spec for 2v2 and 3v3 arenas and pvp and 1v1. Premed is HUGE for burst in 2v2s when u need to get someone down fast.But i will never spec premed. i personally think vigor is better than premed. when u are tryin to stunlock someone down or burst them u have to wait an extra 2 seconds to get the energy unless u time it perfectly which isnt much of a problem for me because i have so much pvp exp but for a lot of people they get caught offgaurd or have bad timing. the 10 energy is also huge when u get one of their members down and u need to stunlock in a 1v1 or a 2v1 i will NEVER give up vigor as long as im daggers. i tried premed and i do not like it. its not as good as vigor for stunlocking or dmg. when u put on premed u have 10 seconds to do something, if u get flared u are fucked because now u have lost the jump and your forced to engage becuase if u run uve wasted it and now u have to wait 2 mins til u can use it again. if premed had zero cooldown it would be better than vigor maybe but at its current state it isnt by any means. with premed u start wioth premed ambush cb evisc BS and prol;ly KS after with vigor u ambush bs ks bs bs cb evisc u do same amount of dmg but u can stunlock better if u need to and u ary constantly being afffected by the talent rather than once every 2 minutes i would encourage 31/0/30 rather than 30/0/31, just my opinion though, u can decide for urself. i wont really talk about 5v5s in this thread because rogues are worthless if they arent the best and know thir class front and back in 5v5 compared to an extra MS warrior or something. although rogues can run around stun and kick and poison. they dont fit the needs of a 5v5 group as well as a mage or a hunter. a rogue with a good resto druid is the best option for 2v2 in my opinion. both classes have great versatility and the drudi can cyclone and kite. if the druid is resto, it makes the team HAVE to gaurd him therefore leaving the rogue to do much more while the druid reguv / lifebloom kites while effectively cycloning. a pally rogue is what others argue but there are 2 reasons this isnt good. 1: a pally cant kite peolpe around and it is not Necessary to gaurd apally. there is no reason to FF the pally with bubble and such. a good pally will fake heal a lot to bring out the CS and kicks early so he can heal no problem later and not have toworry about bubble silence. 2: it is much mroe rewarding and fun when u rape a team with good cyclones and kiting. the druid can keep moonfiring to keep dots and keep people in combat and slowly tick away the life, or rank 1 to conserve mana . plus u add in the 20% and no interrupt skill for 20 seconds. 'and bear form and stealth. u see, with a resto druid. he can stay stealthed for most of the fight until the rogue needs to be healed. then the team has to stop killin the rogue and focus on the druid. this can causwe them, to start playing sloppy and not work as well as a team. in addition,0 a druid can hug pillars for LOS and get outa combat to stealth again with DOT heals oni him.

for pvp, many argue that daggers is best. and it probably is but the thing is ddaggers requires a lot more gear and is inferior until a player is basically full epics. this is why i play fist and sword spec. sowrds is better in my opinion but ill leave that for u to decide. lets put it this way. with fist u get 5 crit. with swords u get 6% for an extra hit. that extra hit dela ssame asd first hit making it the same as a crit, but the sword proc can also crit, or even better,m u can get a double crit,. add in blinkstrike and GG. 20/41 for pve is great.

the only way i see a rogue beibng effective in a 5v5 is combat , imp kick imp sprint, more constant dops than burst. in a 5v5 u will probably have 3 healers so survivability wont be a hhuge issue for the rogue imo. i have noticed that once u start getting more rating in 2v2 3v3 and 5v5, u start to see rogues that are combat rather than sub or assass. in 2v2s i think that me and standouts are a nasty combo because neither of us will lose to any class 1v1, and we have no problemn getting 1 of the 2 down fast, either before the healer can react, or we silence, or we just chill with normal dmg then bust when healer is offgaurd, the big problem with our 2v2 is my gear. i have HORRIBLE gear especially for pvp. thats why im gonna start pvping a lot and try to get more arena gear. im workin on HWL gloves for deadly throw silence and then i think ill work on belt or chest or helm. the necklace is pretty nice too. for a rogue. resilience and stam is KEY, it doesnt matter how much fuckin ap and crit u have when u cant survive. killing a rogue with 9-10k health is damn near impossible with prep.Take this into consideration. with about 225 resil (which isnt hard to get) you remove mailce and opportunity talents from a rogue. thats 10 talent points that are worthless to a rogue thats attacking me. 5% crit and 20% crit dmg. 2 evasions for melee, cloak for range, sprintx2 vanishx2 add in bklind if thats not enuff, add in druid heals and GG. i only have around 8k health right now. and about 23 crit and 1250 ap i think. im not on to cherck atm. once me and standouts get better gear we will rape. the thing with us is we have no heals, but he is good with sheeps where we can run away and eat/drink to get some more health and mana to finish the team off. the only problem we gonna have is our gear. we still need top work on working together as a team but that will come with practice, time, and exp.

One spec that i neverreally tried til late 60 when ihad 6 piece t3 was hemo. it was really good at 60 and when i hit 70 i was stoked to get the lightning fists on my UD rogue (Geesh) and spec hemo. personally i go for 31/0/30, close to daggers but no impo backstab and u get hemo ghostlyu stirke and camoflauge instead of imp ambush and opportunity. I personally like hemo. Gret for pvp and its really fun. really good damage and insane stunlocks. its horrible for rogues if u dont have every key binded and easy to access. with hemo, u need to spam every thing all the time. trinkets vanish bblind hemo stuns blablablablablabla so much u have to spam. most spamming spec for a rogue. I love it. great stuns and awesome dmg like i said, but its also good for pve. not as good as combat but the 10 dmg increase helps for the other melee in the raid.

I am great with all specs but i prefer to be daggers, mostly for the backstab graphic of undeads. hemo looks same as evisc which i really like, but it is too much of the same thing for m. im stupid and picky like that. id rather have the sick looking evisc be the final move thats rapes for 3k dmg. with daggers a rogue is based on crits, the difference between me and other rogues is that i dont rely on crits. i can still adapt and as a matter of fact i liek it when i rape someone without getting crits, its much more rewarding for me and more embarrassing for the "Ownee"

I am getting my glad dagger tomorrow and i think im gonna put a mongoose on it. For everyone out there thats reading this post, no matter what class u are, work on stam and resilience for PvP. yes, ap and crit is better for raids, but stam and res is better for arenas. if u work on resilience gear, u will notice that your dmg output will go up even though its not what youre focusing on. u will start noticing how much easier pvp and arenas are.

personally, i have been wanting to try out 30/31/0 lately. seal fate adrenarush. i would lose potency and 10% ss which trns to 20% on ctris. but i would gain seal fate, which i think is one of the best rogue talents there is, and i would gain CB as well as 20% heal and fleetfooted. id still have imp kick and i would also gain riposte which is good rfor rogues and pallys. worthless for warriors because they are all MS spec fso theyre immune to disarm and if u ever run into a fury warrior in arenas its gonna be around 1500-1550 rating probably and u wnot need to worry about teams at that rating anyway. but riposte could still be good vs ms warrior because it does a lot of dmg. 150% melee dmg and at 70 with a sword u have around 600-700 base dmg i believe. this leaves combat maces and shadow step and mutilate i believe.

First, combat maces.
At 70, maces is a lot different than 60. now it increases weapon skill and still gives 6% stun chance. this stun chance( although not very reliable) could be HUGE in arena. rogues cant stun lock much with combat when rush is down so the mace stuns could be very effective in stunlockuig. at 60 mace stnu had deminishing returns with every other stun, now it has NO deminishing returns. this is HUGE in pvp, u can get a lucky stun midheal if kick and stuns are down or no energy which could easily change the whole game. personally i save between 5 and 25 energy at all times so i will have enuff to kick or KS but sometimes it misses . besides miss it can be blocked dodged and parried. i haver heard a lot of good things from this spec but ill need to try it out for myself before i believe it like any other spec.

Mutilate: in my opinion, HORRIBLE for arenas. you dont have dirty deeds or prep or 10% dmg out of stealth or inreased ap. the 10% out of stealth doesnt matter much cuz u get 10% when theyre KSed and another 10% when u use a fnishing move. your main burst from this spec would come from CB mutilate in my opinion but u have to use a lot of energy shiving and with mutilate u cant have a fast offhand for low energy shivs because u need high offhand dmg as well as high main hand dmg. the problem with mutilate is survivability which is KEY in arenas.

Shadowstep. FUCKING GARBAGE, i will say nothing else...
j/k. okay. shadowstep..eww the word just makes me wanna puke. Shadow step is a cool talent BUT it is WAY SHITTY for being the ULT of sub. basically your giving up CB fleetfooter 20% heal and 80% less energy finishing move when miss/dodge/parry/block and u miss on SEAL FATE and VIGOR. the ONLY thing u gain from step is 20% to ur next ambush or backstab............................. fucking disgusting. u miss on 2 cold Bloods and seal fate which is HUGE in arenas. seal fate makes ur stunlock ability and dmg output increase exponentially. the one good thing u gain from shadowstep is the 30% chance for killing blow to not affect you but when u have prep and good pvp gear, its not nessecary. shadowstep is also worthless if you are not with another DPSer. because u wont be able to kill someone fast enough by yourself.
I hope this helps u guys. This is pretty incomplete and i might add to it later but im kinda busy at school ATM so...
PEACE


-Geesh-
lol!
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Seckzy

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PostSubject: Re: @Carnsir   Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:26 pm

and so it is revealed...
this is what gesh does in his free time...when he cant play wow

he thinks about it day and night!
(quiet sad reery)

but also equally as sad...i must admit to doing the same thing...


MY THOUGHTS...o shit here it comes


now i have never had a rogue as my main...i have mad my own alts up to lvl 50 which dont say to much about end game pvp/pve BUT i have had a buttload to fit those guys from queer eye for the straight guy of pvp/pve on other rogues...

namely geshs old rogue
but also my other RL friend had a rogue which he recently had perma banned q.q
and another Rl friends friends rogue

all in all..i would consider myself better than the average rogue and actually pretty damn good...

yes i am flawed and gesh dotn think so cause hes so fucking critical and hes tha best imo so iv got alot to impress with him...

anyways... my replies... not in order and kinda grouped



1. With daggers vigor>premed and 31/0/30 is best pvp spec
Ok yes this build rapes...i dotn have to explain it...its amazing you get so much namely seal fate and prep. and yes vigor > premed in this case.

2. Daggers needs almost full epics
yah id agree swords is normally better for blue gear for the most part except for one situation

O SHIT HERE IT COMES...geesh aint gonna like this part..he hates me for it

3. Shadowstep is garbage
Ok this is were me and gesh's normally clear and similar view of a rogue dissapates...
over the concept of SStep.

My ass its garbage...some specs obviously are better for some situations like 30/0/31 is shit compared to 20/41/0 for pve dps...

just as IN MY OPINION in a 1v1 situation and also some 2v2 SStep is much more better =P

Ok now. 5v5, 3v3, and some 2v2s SStep is not near as good as the G-Spec (31/0/30)-yes that was to calm u a bit geesh...

but in 1v1 and most 2v2's...ESPECIALLY AND WITH NO EXCEPTION, when there is a clothie SStep is far better....
reasons for beeing...

a. Premed...rapes..its amazing... the nerf of prep made it a bit less but it is still amazing and in a 2v2 arena situation it would be great.

b.30% ambush increase, now thats not counting oppurtunity and lethality and such thats only the 10% out of stealth and SS itself..this is huge 30% ambush dmg is insane...couple that with a gouge then an evis (2:premed, 2:oppurtunity ambush, 1: gogue) thats AMAZING and would just about effectivley kill any clothie or maybe leather wearer...thats at least 3.5K ambush with a decent blue dagger and then another 3.5k AT LEAST from a evis crit... 7k dmg..like 2 seconds good fuckin game

c. Its my preference..its what id be if i had a rogue

d. Its fun ^_^

e. you have more AP more agi=even more AP

4.Druid is > than a Pally
yah ok WAY more versatility and more fun...

pally is a better healer imo and he can survive better and last hella longer..yah a druid can survive good but a palladin is immune ^_^

5. Hemo for PVP
yah its good...hella fun...if you gonna pvp with swords fists or maces...then go 31/0/30 hemo...its awsome

6. Mace Spec
you tried it right before the buff when it was effected by DR...it sucked ass...now its hella good

7. Mutilate
this is what I think is garbe i tried it for a little bit...it sucks imo...

i havnt played it more than like 5 minutes tho so w/e my opinion there is pretty much worthless imo
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shyter
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PostSubject: Re: @Carnsir   Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:48 am

Hemo is at its worst state it has ever been.
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Seckzy

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PostSubject: Re: @Carnsir   Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:22 pm

no less than a full page response....

/cuntpunt
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Shishio

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PostSubject: Re: @Carnsir   Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:46 pm

1. hemo isnt at its worst right now, seal fate hemo vigor is insane for stunlock
2. seckzy has no exp with a rogue besides playin my chars, he played a bit up to 35ish then i lvled his char for him to 43.
3. wow ur a fucking retard. this is why i dont like arguing with seckzy, he is delusional and irrational. shadowstep IS garbage. u sure as fuck dont get 3500 CB evisc crit because u DONT HAVE CB WITH SHADOWSTEP, THATS THE POINT, also U WONT AMBUSH FOR 3.5K EITHER. my ambushes on a clothie range from 2200 to 2500 ABSOLUTE MAX and i went out front and dueled and tested it for 30 mins earlier on bunch of clothies. ur bust is the ambush, thats it, ur evisc will crit maybe 25% of the time and ambush only about 70% ya the increased ap and agi will help with the dmg a bit but not an extra 400. PLUS u have no seal fate which is huge, without seal fate u cant do much past ur first few burst hits cuz u dont get enuff CPs. sure u have premed and prep premed but its not enuff. and its not 30% more than 31/0/30, its 20% more because u have the 10% out of stealth with 31/0/30 noob. also, ur average, not better than average. in addition, with ur spec u are getting 15% and 10% agi and ap respectively. when ur getting resilience and stam gear ur agi and ap will go down until u start getting epix. altogether horrible spec. u would do more dmg with a CB evisc than a SS ambush. ur evisc crits for 3k and shadowstep ambush crits for 3k except u get seal fate, 2 CBs, more CPs and more reliable. the ambush evisc is all u have for burst. u cant do shit after that. GG nub.
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Ezmode



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PostSubject: Re: @Carnsir   Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:17 am

I got ambushed for 3313 once.
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Seckzy

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PostSubject: Re: @Carnsir   Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:53 am

were did i say CB evis?

definately didnt...far as i kno wand if i did it was a mistake...

dont care what you say, me, mike might, and ian privet will all vouch that the rogue that we palyed in beta with 2 2.5 and BF with a pugio...he was getting those crits u speak of in znagramarsh mobs...


on rats his SS was well over 3k, 3.1-3.2k

thats a lvl 60.... 70 have way more ap and way better dagger.

but w/e as i said..its a preference and in a 1v1 and some 2v2's it would be better than your build...


well ok no, take that back... 1v1 against anything in mail or less....mail would be a bit much but still

i dunno its a clothie raping build... thats really fun...

i now more than u think
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Shishio

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PostSubject: Re: @Carnsir   Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:57 am

LOL its nowhere near clothie raping build. only thing u gain is Sing behind em when u vanish but by then u will get fucked by nova or AE, u have no survivability or stunlock which is what u need on casters, u may get a better ambush on a mage than usual but that is it, its ok for confusing people but in addition its nowhere near better thanm my build for 1v1 or 2v2. my build IS 1v1 and 2v2. i cant be touhced while i fuckuig rape everyu mother fucker that comes my way. get the best rogue on the server to respec SS and duel me, matter of fact ill go on my lvl 63 priest and beat him. i know rogues, i know exactlky what to do, with SS u have no stun lock , no CB no CPs because of seal fate. and wtf!?!?!? ur fucking SS buil;d is retarded. u dont even have the 30% to be immune to an attack thast would kill u, that could be a pom ap trinket pyro lol. that 30% is the only reason u should ever think of SS. and NO it ISNT preference. preference is when 2 builds are almost exactly alike in effectiveness. 31/0/30 or 30/0/31 is WAY THE FUCK superior to SS. and u got ambush for 3313 with berzerking probably or fully buffed. was it in a BG? or if not then it was an epic ass mutha fucker probably with a malchazeen and arin. what do u know? NOTHING. all u do is lie about everything. in RL and in game, thats why no one trusts what u say or trusts u for that matter. anyone with a functioning brain anyway. u have played a rogue at 40ish, u played 1 60 rogue that wasnt even urs when ian was there and u playde that for a couple hours. u never really played my rogue either cuz u rarely had my info because every time u did, i was always missing gold. but back to the point. mike will not vouch that SS is better than 30/0/31 i talk to him about my chars every day lol. and even if he did, its superficial. he has no experience with a rogue. all he does is read what ming says. that is one opinion. ming is pretty good but u have to have different opinions. also, ming says 30/0/31 is by far the best as well. anyway. like i said ss is inferior. ill give u 250g if u can find me a SS rogue that can beat me. and 100 if u can find any rogue that can beat me 2 outa 3. by the way, if u want a tip. only chance ur gonna have is if u get an orc. tell him to go combat / prep so he will have 2 ARs and an extra 10% stun resist and also make sure he has meta gem with 5% stun resist so that he will have 30%. make sure he also has insane gear.
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Shishio

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PostSubject: Re: @Carnsir   Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:59 am

shyter wrote:
Hemo is at its worst state it has ever been.

ur at the worst state u ever been
matter of fact
UR MOMS AT THE WORST STATESHES EVER BEEN. MUAHAHAHA I WIN
CLASSIC COMBACK
INCINERATION
IM THE INSULT MASTER
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Shishio

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PostSubject: Re: @Carnsir   Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:05 pm

aso, yes u have more aap and better dagger. but a decent geared mage is gonna have around 9k health. unbuffed. GG ur puny ambush wont do shit to that . especialy in a 2v2. he will just kite u and u eneed to save some cds to survive rather than wastinmg them aimlessly chasing a mage.
Dan is in PvE gear only 2-3 pieces of pvp. 1 arena 2 epic pvp and he has 9.2k health dude. i am in pve gear righht now. 3 pieces of good pvp gear, (offhand boots bracers) and i have 8.5 and i have ap enchants, not even stam enchants and plus, oncer i get those halaa legs i have a 30 stam 10 agi legpatch ready and also i am getting 18stam 5% stun meta gem. im gonna have over 10k health really soon. once i get some enchants and some decent gear. once i get my emerald ripper and bladed shoulders (for looks) im gonna pvp with rogue and hit 70 on my priest cuz we need some priests to progress and u know that im an insane fuckin priest. prolly better than my rogue. uve seen me kite around 9 people at once.

@ pallyrogue
yes, the only thing thatr wil beat the druid rogue is an insane pally and insane rogue or insane pally and insane warrior with crazy gear and immense skill. thwe pally simply has more ability to last.
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